3. However, if he did not lie in wait, but God delivered him into his hand, then I will appoint for you a place where he may flee.". Forty years, at least, has passed, and had they been involved in it back when Saul was still kinglet us say they were 18 to 20 years oldthese men involved in this massacre, should they still be alive, might be 60, 65, or even 70 years old. A snare is a trap. Over the years I've urged our Fellowship to check out, investigate and take to heart such biblical alarms. Israel was totally swindled and bamboozled. He did not do anything to directly intervene. God is just. ", God answered immediately, "It is because of Saul and his bloodthirsty house. Does the devil have power to make us sick? There is no biblical account of this escapade of Saul and his house against Gibeon. Also, they were hanged on the hill before the Lord. God took the initiative in this matter, by afflicting the nation of Israel with a famine because the house of Saul had put the Gibeonites to death. My reading between the lines concludes that King David was at a spiritual low point at this time. "Now therefore, you are cursed, and none of you shall be freed from being slaveswoodcutters and water carriers for the house of my God." 0 responses For all his misguided efforts and pains, Saul reaped the fruits of his delusion. I will break the pride of your power; I will make your heavens like iron and your earth like bronze. 21:1-11 ). He had a body of law that he could have referred back to and come up with a solution. Another group, however, argues that as God's anointed king, . WebOne of the mothers of the men hanged by the Gibeonites protected the bodies of Saul's sons from birds and wild beasts day and night. Report. David did not come to this with any regal neutrality in the least. He asked me, "How does this incident square with what God says in Ezekiel 18:19-20?". Over the years I've urged our Fellowship to check out, investigate and take to heart such biblical alarms. Something is wrong. It would have been the answer. The words "thirty" and "forty" are not in the original Hebrew. And, it certainly does not record that David took this to God for His solution to it. It is very evident from verse 4 that somebody offered money, either from the palace or from the family of Saul. And that day Joshua made them woodcutters and water carriers for the congregation and for the altar of the LORD, in the place which He would choose, even to this day. King Saul exhibited that hubris, that overweening pride in his own decisions and that unfounded confidence in his own good judgment that he brought certain and lasting disaster upon his own dynasty. What I am trying to show you by going through these different places is that there is plenty of law that King David could have looked back on. & "Take heed that you be not deceived." Now if the LORD your God enlarges your territory, as He swore to your fathers, and gives you the land which He promised to give to your fathers, and if you keep all these commandments and do them, which I command you today, to love the LORD your God and to walk always in His ways, then you shall add three more cities for yourself besides these three, lest innocent blood be shed in the midst of your land which the LORD your God is giving you as an inheritance, and thus guilt of bloodshed be upon you. And after that God heeded the prayer for the land. And we are supposed to be ready. What might he have done? Her actions made David realize that he had violated another of God's commands by leaving the bodies of Saul, Jonathan, and the seven other sons unburied. God sent the rain, it says specifically, "from heaven," verse 10, "in the latter rains," which is their normal cycle. So they performed all that the king commanded. David didnt get the throne until Saul and Jonathon were both dead. David was anointed king many years before he took the throne. He had Saul tryin Each generation had to live out its days as "hewers of wood and carriers of water". Jamieson, Fausset and Brown comments: It was a heathen practice to gibbet men with a view of appeasing the anger of the gods in seasons of famine, and the Gibeonites, who were a remnant of the Amorites, though brought to the knowledge of the true God, were not, it seems, free from this superstition. This may have only been a couple of months later. And the LORD answered, It is for Saul, and for his bloody house, because he slew the Gibeonites. Why were genealogies so important to Israel? There was a great deal of turmoil in Israel leading up to this time. How many died in sicknesses? Who was the father of Mephibosheth? Has the book of Amos been fulfilled or is it a reference to end times? The children of Israel gathered and went across the Jordan River, and set up camp at Gilgal. Except for verse 21, there is very little mention of God in the whole episode. Hebrews 11 exhibits a whole chapter of men and women just like us who, despite their humanity and frequent foibles, fought the good fight of faith and were victorious in the end through the grace of God. But that conclusion is a bit too sanguine once you begin to look into that which is not said, or what is said elsewhere. This is what we have to learnunderstanding the distinction between guilt for sin, and the lingering effects of sin. How many died in bar-fights? It does not matter. Perhaps those first two, Armoni, and Mephibosheth were old enough to have participated in the event. It shows you just how far things had sunk in the land. . Joshua 9:14 is the key to Israel's problem. It seems as though he was spiritually sleepwalking through this whole thing. You see, famine on the scale like thisthree yearsis a sign from God that things were not copacetic in the land. It does not seem to me that during this time of the three years of famine David was emulating the attitude that he wrote about in Psalm 34. And they went to Joshua, to the camp at Gilgal, and said to him and to the men of Israel, "We have come from a far country; now therefore, make a covenant with us. And David sought the face of the Lord. Report Up and down your family tree, sin does not go. Even so, maybe there were even worse problems, perhaps, and David was blind to them for three years. And Samuel says, "See? The midrash states that when Saul learned of this, he was angry with his daughter and demanded of her: Why did you deceive me and let my enemy escape? We see in this little vignette that innocent people die; grief lingers forever; idolatry is committed; and the curse of famine continues; another harvest fails; and the land remains defiled; everything stinks of death. For the Gibeonites, their wily guile and deception gained them survival and nothing more. We have all these things coming at the end time, which is very short. Exodus 20:4-6 You shall not make for yourself a carved image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth; you shall not bow down to them nor serve them. Then they went back and took Ai. WebWhen God called Saul to be king, Israel was on the verge of collapse. It was as if David earlier said, "Let's just get this out of the way. Now, if they participated in his sin, then of course, they will bear the guilt for their participation in that sin. The Gibeonites were a very shrewd bunch of people. The scriptures are not very definitive as to why. When we read the history of skirmishes and battles between the Gibeonites and Israelites we get a He was far from God during this time. * 1 Samuel 18:12 KJV And Saul was afraid of David, because the LORD was with him, and was departed from Saul. * 1 Samuel 18:15 KJV Wherefore when S He was not really on the ball like he should have been. ", The Gibeonites, we are told, were not necessarily a warlike people. He then tells David that he can't marry Michal until he brings Saul 100 Philistine foreskins, thinking that David will definitely die in this attempt. And the LORD answered, It is for Saul, and for his bloody house, because he slew the Gibeonites. ", So David went out and said, "There are some things that have needed to be done. and for his bloody house. At the time the Israelites under Joshua invaded the Promised Land of Canaan, most of the inhabitants rose up in arms against them. What we do inherit of their sin is consequences. That would be such a carnal thing to dojust let the Gibeonites kill seven of Saul's kids who could claim the Israelite throne and get them out of the way. Deep and long lasting trouble for both parties - both the Israelites and the Gibeonites - was the fruit of this clever, but calamitous deception. It says that they were Saul's sons. So he said, "Whatever you say, I will do for you." David then goes to Gibeonites and asked to make amends. They have a discussion in the next few verses, and many Israelites want to go ahead and kill these Gibeonites for what they did. I am putting this all together from history. He allowed his actions to be dictated by the Gentile principle of retributionvengeancerather than God's law on such matters. So, it is very likely that these men were murdered both as retribution and as sacrifices to some pagan god to spite the God of the Bible, and therefore, Israel. I do not know. Skeptic turned believer, Catholic, father of 3, ABC/DTS graduate, guitar music ministry Baptist church. It cut us off from God. WebThe Gibeonites Hang Saul's Descendants 21 While David was king, there were three years in a row when the nation of Israel could not grow enough food. Only in one sense, there was a fall of man, but certainly not in the traditional sense. PHARAOH AND HAMAN - WebSaul kills the gentile Gibeonites (2 Sam 21) & banishes mediums in preparation for Tabernacle being moved from Nob to Gibeon. Then they were able to pick up the pieces of their lives and move forward by the strength that God gave them to overcome and to grow, and to put on the mindthe characterof Christ. This could indicate that the sons of Saul were actively implicated in this attempted genocide, although we cannot tell for sure as the details of this awful event are not recorded. How long was the average lifespan at the time? That is the bottom line. the LORD answered, It is for Saul, and for his bloody house, because he slew the I know that he had other family problems because the prophecies said that he would. These cagey enemies of God's people were destined to be destroyed, so they devised a simple, but clever scheme to deceive Israel in the hope of saving their own necks. In Rizpahs case, her husband, King Saul, broke his promise that the Israelites would spare the Gibeonites in battle; he ordered the Israelites to annihilate them. However, this chapter drops a few hints about it. He keeps his word even to his own disadvantage and does not change it [for his own benefit] (Psalm 15:1, 4; AMP). The Israelites had been dealing with the Gibeonites, who were Hivitesand as it says here, they were a part of the Amorite peoplesince the first days in the land under Joshua. There should have been payment for it. God only let the rain cycle start again. When asked about the time of the end; when questioned about the signs that would precede His Second Coming, our blessed Lord instinctively cautioned: "Take heed that no man deceive you." Throughout the Scriptures warnings of spiritual dangers are signaled by the flash cards of attention getting words like: "Take heed" or "Consider". It wouldnt be surprising if these people had become worshippers of God, from their exposure to the tabernacle and teaching. Based on what he knew, and what was available in God's law, David should have been much more judicious. David was Born Mar 2, 2022 A three-year famine occurs as a result of Sauls attack on the Gibeonites Mar 2, 2022. The Bible doesnt really say. This is taken from the book Antiquities of the Jews, pg. 7: AFTER this, when the country was greatly afflicted with a He received good marks in Scripture. Deuteronomy 19:7-10 Therefore I command you, saying, 'You shall separate three cities for yourself.' But, the big thing was that he did not consult God about what he should do about it. They were appeasing their own god to send rain. It is not genetic. The Gibeonites presented themselves to the invading Israelites, not as nearby neighbors, but as distant foreigners who lived in a far-off land. DESTRUCTION AND CORRUPTION Who are the twenty four elders that John foresaw? No silver or gold from that house. Things were going wrong. Saul agreed, and off he went. Then there are things of degeneracy. He could have done whatever he wanted. He was humble and relied on God, and was granted many victories over Israels enemies. Things started to go downhill over time however, as Saul became presumptuous and arrogant; he ignored several direct commands of God, and the last straw came when he interfered in offering a sacrifice to God, in direct contravention of what hed been told to do. Perhaps if I go and kill all the Gibeonites like Joshua was supposed to do, maybe God will let me back into the chair.". Other people do not carry the guilt for that person's sin. Instead, the Gibeonites demanded the execution of seven of Saul's sons. If we would go through Luke 21:7-12, we would see that Jesus gave His disciples indications of what would happen if the time of the end began. Saul's bones are still in Jabesh-Gilead. We have our own sins to pay for; we do not pay for theirs. They did not inquire. When the Gibeonites heard that the other nations were going to attack them, they sent a message to Joshua and the people, Help! Therefore, your kingdom is taken away and given to another. 6. They did what is recalled in verses 3 through 6 above. Were they participants in killing the Gibeonites? In other words, we want them to be just like us. If the Gibeonites brought guile and deceit into the land; it was Saul who set the example for deep and devastating delusion. 1. Saul, Israel's first king thought he knew better than God. It was certainly alive and well in Israel. WebThe alliance with the Gibeonites lasted for centuries, until Saul - in his zeal (21, 2) - decided that the ancient covenant was no longer binding. According to a May 2007 George Barna Poll, 63% of Americans, mostly professing Christians, believe that Jesus sinned during His physical life! Why does the Bible say David spared Mephibosheth then offered him to the Gibeonites to be killed? The breach of contract was serious enough that God sent the famine in response. What is the meaning of the parable of the rich man and his manager? Gibeon is only a few miles mostly north of Jerusalem. Joshua kept his word to the Gibeonites even when it was inconvenient. Joshua and that generation did not do their entire job, and so they were stuck. Vote Up Community answers are sorted based on votes. 'Whoever kills a person, the murderer shall be put to death on the testimony of witnesses [another layer that comes in]; but one witness is not sufficient testimony against a person for the death penalty. They were the five sons of Merab, Saul's daughter. This is certainly not the David of Psalm 34, where he wrote. Or as the Gibeonites said Saul consumed them and tried to destroy them a people Israel had entered into a covenant with 400 years earlier. What do we do in a time of spiritual famine? Israel plagued by allowing the deception But they refused the offer. They handed their enemies hard, stale, moldy bread and told them it had been freshly baked when they left home. When God called Saul to be king, Israel was on the verge of collapse. During the time of the judges, the Israelites had repeatedly turned away, lea Gave 7 of Saul's sons to the Gibeonites. Good question. Go back with me to Deuteronomy 7 and see the instruction that God gave to Israel about how to deal with these kinds of people. Can we assume that God was in any way propitiated at the conclusion of this story? And it very seriously affected his judgment in this matter. So they fell, all seven together, and were put to death in the days of harvest, in the first days, in the beginning of barley harvest. Let his blood be on us and on our children., Perhaps the Gibeonites are a type of the inclusion of the gentiles Romans 9:22-24. If you look at a map in the back of your Bible which has something to do with the conquest of Israel, you will see that Gilgal is right over the Jordan River, just on the eastern side of the land. The Gibeonites merely asked for a mutual help pact that would guarantee not only mercy and aid from Israel, but protection from their common enemies. As mentioned earlier, there was the rebellion of Absalom. You're out of here!". And when Saul saw any strong man or any valiant man, he took him for himself. God did not perform a miracle to end this famine after these men were executed. If He said that you are out of here, you are out of here. It says a bit later that somebody told him what that woman was doing out there protecting the bodies of the slain men of Saul's house for the past six months and it was as though he said, "Oh really? The Gibeonites joined in the fight against the Philistines B. We do not know how long before II Samuel 21 this incident happened. Numbers 35:29-33 And these things shall be a statute of judgment to you throughout your generations in all your dwellings. We know that you said not to make a covenant with the people the land. At most it was about ten miles awaynot very far at all. In 2 Samuel 21, we read of the tragic repercussion that followed when King Saul didnt honor the covenant and murdered some Gibeonites. Why were two of Saul's sons and five of Saul's grandsons killed for a crime they didn't commit? What have they done? WebThe Philistines decided not to attack D. God gave Saul three options to choose from as he went out against the Philistines. You do not know. The Israelite version was a whole lot less absolute. Joshua 9:25-27 "And now, here we are, in your hands; do with us as it seems good and right to do to us." It said earlier that they wanted them to be hung before the Lord in Gibeah of Saul. He just let matters continue naturally and let it rub in for another six or seven months. He was setting us an example of what we should be doing in a spiritual sense. WebNow, when they heard that the Gibeonites had made a special treaty with the Israelites they got very angry. If we think that we have it all figured out, I am sorry, we do not. The famine was a punishment for Sauls violation of the covenant, made with the Gibeonites back during the days of Joshua. They agree to the death of seven of Saul's descendants. In effect, what they wanted to do was hang the bodies of Saul's family in Saul's hometown in sight of Jerusalem. You had to go up quite a bit. They knew all the things God had stipulated about what they were to do when Israel was going to come into the land. Think about it. They got a couple of their men, maybe elders, and got them to appear like they came along distance. But, are these people telling the truth? The Gibeonites actually lived only a few miles from Jericho, the Twelve Tribes' designated entry point to Palestine. It must have been a satisfactory solution from Gods point of view, because he sent the rain on the land after the measures had been taken. Saul, after having disqualified They are two separate things. Web16 And it happened at the end of three days, after they had made a covenant with them, that they heard that they were their neighbors who dwelt near them. But, the others were Saul's grandsons. How much food did Jesus produce? And she did not allow the birds of the air to rest on them by day nor the beasts of the field by night. The time had passed. If we would go back to Leviticus 26, we will see that David should have known that famine was no small thing in God's arsenal. We do know the Gibeonites were cutters of wood and drawers of water for the altar of God the tabernacle was at Gibeon. Now, turn to the episode of King David, which we introduced. As Christians living amidst spiritual famine, we dare not compromise with the culture around us. This cultural trait makes it difficult for many people to identify with Jesus Christ. So let seven of Sauls sons or grandsons be handed over to us, and we will execute them before the Lord at Gibeon, on the mountain of the Lord.. He gets kicked down the societal ladder for his sin, and it takes three or four generations for the family to recover. Much later, King Saul ignored this covenant of peace and killed some Gibeonites. When asked about the time of the end; when questioned about the signs that would precede His Second Coming, our blessed Lord instinctively cautioned: "Take heed that no man deceive you." He needed God to forgive him. David asked. 0 responses If people grow up in a society and culture that does not have God at their beck and call, they do whatever they wantwhatever comes naturally. The verb is used in this sense with respect to Joshua's action toward the Gibeonites in Joshua 9:27, where cultic servitude is involved ("for the altar of the Lord"). Rizpah, Lord Alfred Tennyson in 1878. DECEPTION AND COST For I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children to the third and fourth generations of those who hate Me, but showing mercy to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My commandments. Turn to Exodus 20 and see that right in the Ten Commandments it sounds like it could mean that sin does travel down the family tree. I don't know a great deal about this particular segment of those biblical people called the Hittites. Saul, after having disqualified himself from being king, sought to ingratiate himself with God by killing Canaanites, including an unrecorded massacre of Gibeonites. One of the things He specifically mentions is famine, which happens to be the third sealphysical famine, but we remember from Amos that there is a spiritual famine as well. He realized how often, and how far, he strayed from God's way of life. 2 So the king called the Gibeonites and spoke to them. It is very clear, and very simplejust two little verses. Also David seems to have only spared Mephibosheth only because he made an oath, and not for the fact that he was only five years old and did not participate in killing the Gibeonites? This angered God and was only amended years later after sacrificing seven of Sauls sons to the Gibeonites by hanging them before Jehovah at Sauls hometown, Gibeah. After that, Gibeonites were no longer mentioned though there are some writers who believed that they were among the Nethinim, the ones selected to serve the temple. Now, if we would go through II Samuel 24, that even though David made a huge mistake in chapter 21, he did it right in chapter 24. Then, they went after Jericho, and it fell. God affirms that the famine is punishment for Sauls massacre of the Gibeonites, who had been protected by a treaty since the Israelites first invaded the Promised Land ( Joshua 9:127 ). There were no conditions. It did not come the next week, or the next month, or the month after that, all through the summer and into the fall holy days. (1) A three-year famine prompts David to seek God. David was annonted by Sammuel Apr 10, 1035. I want you to understand where Barry was coming from in writing the note. Then, I am sure, he started to think about other things that were happening, and he started to make some reforms in himself. David represents usJoe Church Membertrue Christians in a time of spiritual famine, much like what Amos describes in Amos 8:11, with the famine of the word. So the king called the Gibeonites and spoke to them. It is not pretty when we allow the people of the land to dictate to us. This was obviously later in his life and reign. It is his sin. Weba motive for Saul's attack on them. If you read 2Samuel 21 carefully, it seems possible that Saul and his house may have been trying to get the Gibeonites territory. Therefore, one of the first things that Joshua and the Israelites do is they allow a big problem to linger in their midst. Saul killed a lot of people. But, very few people can relate to sinless perfection. Guilt for sin is not hereditary. He just simply rolled over. Some unfinished business here needs to be taken care of. It is in II Samuel 21. This incident appears in time sequence toward the end of his life. It would take three or four generations for perversion to be kicked out of a society. This shows that this portion of the story in II Samuel 21, hanging the bodies for six months or so, was an additional curse upon the land. The "Man of Steel" is just too perfect, too smart, and too invincible. The world's arsenal is growing daily in material strength and sophisticated intimidation. Saul had four sons. * Jonathanhe befriended David, died with Saul on Mount Gilboa * Abinadabdied with Saul on Mount Gilboa * Malchishuadied with Christ says, Luke 21:34-35 "But take heed to yourselves, lest your hearts be weighed down with carousing, drunkenness, and cares of this life, and that Day come on you unexpectedly. They fell for it hook, line, and sinker, and they were stuck. That is the background on the Gibeonites, and their relationship with Israel. But the massacre of the Gibeonites probably occurred after that. 3:6: "for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life"? The higher the vote, the further up an answer is. Instead, David brings back twice as many. And the LORD answered, It is because of Saul and his bloodthirsty house, He just let them walk all over him. He was the king. No one killed king David. He died of old age, at the age of three score and ten (70 years). His son Solomon succeeded him. You might be thinking of But the king spared Mephibosheth the son of Jonathan, the son of Saul, because of the LORD's oath that was between them, between David and Jonathan the son of Saul. If, in the event the Israelis ever came their way, they would be servants to the people of Israel. Finally, after six or seven months, the rains came in their natural cycle. It is after Absalom's rebellion. In fact, it can be read as if David approached it as only a minor administrative matter. Where are they from? "There was a famine in the days of King David for three years, year after year. 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People can relate to sinless perfection offered him to the people the land, saying, 'You shall separate cities... Amos been fulfilled or is it a reference to end times hard, stale, moldy and. The lines concludes that king David for three years and nothing more a whole lot less absolute before took! God Gave Saul three options to choose from as he went out and,! Things that have needed to be king, Israel 's first king thought knew. Better than God the words `` thirty '' and `` forty '' are not in the land natural.... The air to rest on them by day nor the beasts of the field by night he knew, so... They were the five sons of Merab, Saul 's sons king many years before took. Is consequences enough that God was in any way propitiated at the time of the.! With the Gibeonites things that joshua and that generation did not allow the birds of the way the. Annonted by Sammuel Apr 10, 1035 kept his word to the people the land ; was. And Mephibosheth were old enough to have participated in the land fruits of his life:... That we have to learnunderstanding the distinction between guilt for their participation in sin... Sequence toward the end time, when did saul attack the gibeonites we introduced they came along distance valiant man, but the massacre the!

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